Battery Rental - issues

Christian pointed me to this.
http://t.co/kLEoWkzEuQ

Makes interesting reading if a little disconcerting.

There is a link in the article to sign the petition to get the conditions changed. I have done this and even if it doesn’t get much changed at least more people will know of the problems that may be ahead. Direct petition link Here

hello,
I would like to point out another petition. It comes from Italy and it is online. It always asks the same thing: the freedom to buy the battery. I am not the author. I think the text is too long and poorly translated, but I think we can sign. I signed.
Here is the link

Here is also a very good article by David Heron about this petition and the problem of the battery rental.

If you sign, thank you leave a little message here so this remains at the top of the list.
Thank you!

Yes an interesting read, I wonder if things will change in the future.
The original idea was as much to see how the battery packs performed under real conditions and give the owners a guaranteed level of performance (and prevent any negative press), but as the packs do seem quite “hardy”, perhaps given the level of interest in buying, they will reconsider.

The only problem I can see is that the Twizy has likely been a huge financial loss to Renault so clawing as much back from battery leasing is more in their interest now they are proving reliable. They will have allowed for failure and short life in the payment prices, so the reliability will be saving them money.

I would worry that they are pulling out of the model if the started selling packs off…

They most certainly don’t seem to have given up on the Twizy yet.

When I was in my local dealership they had just taken delivery of a brand new 14 plate Twizy technic. I spoke to someone in there and they said they’re still promoting them.

Made me wonder if selling mine was the right thing to do or not.

James it was a mistake :slight_smile: Not really you do what is required at the time.

Renault have not removed the Twizy from promotional shots and do appear to mention it quite often. Especially with Formal-E pictures.
I hope to join an EV track day with my Twizy and take it round Donnington FIA approved track. The day includes a trip round the Formula- E factory as Donnington is the home of Formula-E.
It’s not cheap but…

I’ve been in three Renault dealers recently and none had either a Twizy or a display, so it just made me wonder…
The number of sale ads on AT and ebay now around 6 each, down from about 15, so stock levels may have balanced a bit.
It would be daft not to have them in London dealers though as they make a lot of sense with C charge, free parking and charging.

I still keep a look out for a cheapy or vandalised/damaged one to do up…

So has anyone reached the end of the Three Year Battery Contract?
if so what happens?

Andy

Yeah I’d like to know the answer to that too. I think it has an impact on what happens to Twizys a little way down the line. I don’t suppose the Twizy has a long life expectancy; what happens when it dies? Are you still tied to paying for the battery? (It’s OK while the cars are new; as I understand it you can pass on the contract to a new owner or back to a Renault dealer. But what if no one wants to take it on because the car is knackered?)

Also, even if the Twizy doesn’t completely die in your ownership, what happens to the value of the car when it drops to a point were the next potential owner could be stuck with a [relatively] massively expensive battery contract on a vehicle worth very little?

Without a leased battery, it’s easier to predict. As a car gets older, the value drops in roughly an inverse exponential curve down to almost nothing, then it gets scrapped. You accept that if you buy an old car for, say, £500 things might go drastically wrong - but the most you’ll ever lose is £500 - even if the engine explodes and the gearbox falls out as you drive it home. But with a Twizy (or any other Renault ZE) you’re tied in to a battery contract which lasts 12-36 months. So, for example, if you buy your Twizy for £1500 second hand, you could be carrying another £1500 of battery rental still to pay on top of that. Does that mean the value of the Twizy will fall off a cliff face when it reaches a certain point? Or is there going to be a way out of the contract, such that if you buy a Twizy for £1500 (which then falls apart on you) you don’t lose your £1500 PLUS the remaining battery rental?

I know what I’m talking about here is all a little way off yet, but it’ll probably be within the next 5 years at a guess…?

There must come a Time when Renault will want to Bail out and not get lumbered with expensive Battery Replacements?

Andy

That’s a good point! Hopefully Renault will want out of the deal before the car goes to the scrap heap. That said, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they’ve neglected to consider this altogether. One thing you can guarantee with Renault though is that the phone calls & paperwork to achieve such a ‘get out’ will go on for hours…days…weeks…maybe years… :slight_smile:

As the only way out of the battery rental is to sell the car to someone who take sup the payments or to a dealer I wonder if a Scrap Car Dealer is the same thing?

What happens now to Twizys that are written Off and the battery is still okay?

I guess from a legal point of view there’d certainly be no issue with removing a battery from a category C or D write off. Not so sure about cats A & B, but I seem to think cat A means total scrap (nothing can be salvaged) and B means you can legally use parts…such as a battery perhaps?

However, I suspect that (a) in an accident at any more than carpark speed the battery is easily damaged and (b) even if it wasn’t, Renault would still find a reason for wanting money from you, rather than just having their battery back.

Regarding signing it to a dealer, does that mean a non-Renault dealer can kind of put the contract on hold while they sell the car? Or is it just Renault dealers who can do that?

I would imagine at renewal, Renault may offer a £figure to get out of the lease,after 6 years, you would have about paid for it, but not many will stay with 1owner for that long.

[FONT=HelveticaNeue]Apparently Renault UK have been listening, and looking at their sales figures as a comparison to those of other rival EV’s. On two websites I’ve seen Ken Ramirez (MD, Renault UK) had allowed himself to be quoted as saying…

[LIST]
]“Renault will offer car buyers the choice of leasing or purchasing on its electric vehicles…”*
[/LIST]


http://www.businesscar.co.uk/news/2014/renault-offers-ev-outright-purchase

[/FONT][FONT=HelveticaNeue]
[/FONT]

But does that mean the cars or the battery packs? I’m guessing that it means the car and battery.

I don’t know and it is a good question. I’m still have some worries about the price. We were told Insure for approx £3k but when I spoke to a Renault dealer who had just had to fit a new battery pack he said it was over £6k. Meaning Renault are making £3k per battery!

The Twizy market could get flooded with Battery lease only cars if they choose NOT to let current owns purchase the battery. Then this raises the question about buying 2nd hand Twizys from the dealer and NOT renting the battery!

What I think they will do either not let you buy the battery straight off but have to rent for 1 year (or more) then remove the rental charge from the battery price (less admin). Renting then becomes a form of Finance which is better.
Renault I suspect are worried about providing a warranty for the first year when most batteries fail due to manufacturing faults and do not degrade. After that they can release the batteries and blame it all on degradation.

Makes perfect sense, I wonder what they’ll end up doing? :lol:

On the flip side, though, if they set the purchase price high, the equivalent finance cost and/or replacement cost of it during your ownership of the Twizy may have been more…

I wonder what the prices will be?

Renault Confirms Battery Purchase Program Coming Soon

                                       44 mins ago                by  [Eric Loveday                 [URL="http://insideevs.com/renault-confirms-battery-purchase-program-coming-soon/#comments"]0Comments](http://insideevs.com/author/eric-loveday)            
                                                    http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/1-750x562.jpg](http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/1.jpg)Renault ZOE

http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/RenaultGroup_50107_global_en-350x233.jpg](http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/RenaultGroup_50107_global_en.jpg)Renault ZOE celebrating with colleagues in Palace of Versailles

Finally, Renault has decided to take our advice by offering battery purchase alongside its current battery rental program.
7 months ago, we wrote:[INDENT]“Our prediction is that slowly but surely Renault will abandon the battery rental program in favor of outright selling its EVs. The automaker’s dwindling EV sales will convince it to make the switch.”
“As nearly all of of our commenters have mentioned, this battery rental idea is what’s holding Renault back. Look for it to change soon.”
[/INDENT]
Well, the battery rental program may not be on its way out, but at least Renault has listened to us and will soon add an outright battery purchase options to its EVs.
Oddly, our prediction that battery purchase was coming soon was shot down and we were even boldly called out at the time for being wrong. However, we knew from our sources that Renault was heading in the battery purchase direction, so it looks like we get the last laugh this time around.
Word of Renault’s change of heart comes from Ken Ramirez, Managing Director at Renault UK who told SpeakEV forum member Qdos that Renault is in the process of advising dealers on how the new battery purchase program will work. Renault tells Transport Evolved that a formal press release is coming soon.
Here’s what Qdos posted on SpeakEV:[INDENT]I wrote to Ken Ramirez at Renault UK about his announcement that Zoe battery’s are going to be an optional purchase.

  • This afternoon his office rang to confirm it, and are just saying “watch this space” as they’re in the process of advising dealerships of the new options and tariffs.*
  • I hope to find out more tomorrow as I couldn’t spare the time on the telephone today – and they said they’d like to know more about my antcipated usage and impressions of both Renault and the car.*
    [/INDENT]
    Be sure to keep on eye on the SpeakEV forum for the latest info on Renault’s battery purchase program and just as soon as that official press release comes over the newswire we’ll post all the details here.