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Superconductivity

no totally wrong, in ten years no one will buy a petrol car…ev’s will have ranges well over 400 miles on a single charge…battery technology will reach around 100kw and give ranges close to 600 miles driven carefully, and 400 miles driven like a loon…using new materials and superconductive motors that are more efficient than current moters energy wise we will see ridiculous increases in ranges without the need for very much more advanced battery. I am big into green, I have just installed a 100 kva CHP plant at my office it will generate 30% of my total electric usage…this will save over 200 tons of carbon…

tesla has a the biggest balls of any other ev manufacturer so far and they turned their first year of profit last year on just 7000 cars…give them another 5 years they will have 30k car on the production line with ranges close to 400 miles…better than the current crop of ev’s…

I am real excited by the future of this, with solar, wind, and hydro power we will should be 30% self sufficient in 10 years with nuclear coming back we will see power supply getting back in the positive rather than the negative and we will see cheaper power, shale gas is a joke, nuclear renewable and bio mass is the answer…

There is no way the ICE cars will be out in ten years times. Even if EVs can achieve what you hope they can, and I am very doubtful, ICE cars will continue for the foreseeable future. The reasons : cars manufacturers and oil companies have too much vested interest and they will make sure ICE cars will continue. It might not make complete sense or best for the planet, but unfortunately that’s how the business world functions. We should still be around in 10 years time so we will see. I predict pure EVs will be out and some form of hybrids will eventually be the norm.

I am so glad to hear you are actually “green” and that you put your beliefs into practice.

using new materials and superconductive motors that are more efficient than current moters energy wise we will see ridiculous increases in ranges without the need for very much more advanced battery
Electric motors have today efficiencies of above 95 %, there is not much space to improve the motors.

not true, the wires within the electric motor are inefficient, superconductive wires would mean that the motor would use virtually no electricity to operate, there is a massive amount of improvement to come from the electric motor…in 20 years we will be going 500 miles on 22kw, we will have no need to stop as we will get power from the induction coils in the road…we will jyust use the batteries for those areas that are off grid. By the end of this decade electric cars will be outselling petrol cars, in less than 10 years petrol/diesel cars will be dead and gone…

mind you we have a lot of work to rebuild our electric network, to install Nuclear power and stop the burning of coal…we still have to invest in wind, solar and bio energy to reduce our carbon emissions, and once we have the induction coils in the roads the lories can go electric and no more air pollution locally at all…roll on the future, it is so exciting now…

Nice to have a committed EV fan, but I am afraid you are getting a little bit carried away, and your enthusiasm has blinded you to the reality. Twizy Renault Sport F1 is correct. Electric motors are hitting 80 to 90% efficiency, (Just Google it) so there is not much room for improvement. Improvements will have to come from the batteries, and I am sure it will come, but to what extent is the big question.
There is absolutely NO WAY that EVs will outsell ICEs by the end of the decade, and in 10 years time they will be gone. I will put money on that. As I have said before there is too much vested interest by the big car manufacturers and big oil companies and governments to a certain extent for them to allow it to happen. I personally think there is no future for pure EVs. The future will be some form of hybrids.
As for predictions, I will make mine. The most successful EV manufacturer Tesla, will not be with us in its present form by the end of this decade. Actually there are already rumors that they are in talk with Apple about selling. If that is true, Apple will be making a HUGE mistake and that will be the beginning of their downfall, particularly if they are going to buy at the present hyperinflated Tesla stock price. I will be happy if I am proved wrong.

That thing about Apple buying Tesla… If it IS serious then to me, it would be the moment of truth for Elon M. To me, he comes across like a straight ‘green guy’, with good intentions and no hidden agenda. But If he does sell to Apple, then i wouldnt be so sure about his character anymore.

Not so sure about a ‘Green Guy’ as he also has a Space craft that uses plenty of fuel.

But if Apple do buy then he needs to more to something else and not get lost in the Apple barrel.

To a lot of people, and I would say the great majority, Musk is an absolute hero, a great visionary. There are lots about him in the media and on YouTube, and mostly positive. BUT, somehow, there is something about the man that I don’t quite trust. He reminds me a bit of Branson. Very good at self promotion, superficially doing things for the good of the masses, but in reality just lining his own pocket. I won’t be surprised if Musk is desparately seeking a buyer for his Tesla company, while the stock price is artificially high, and cash in. Just like he did with Paypal. That’s one of the main reasons why I predict Tesla won’t be in its present form by the end of this decade.

I can not agree on that since I can’t think of any reason why he would want to cash-in. Or should I say Cash-in even more? Cause he is already settled for life in that regard. It really would suprise me if it turns out to be his goal. Why invest so much in SpaceX and Tesla, put money at risk while he has enough money to begin with. Like… If I win 8 million euros, no chance in hell i’m going to spend 75% of it in something to make even more. I would only do such a thing if it is for a greater cause.

There is no way the current car industry will disappear in any of our life time, barring massive world ending catastrophe . The motor industry is the life blood of our entire existence . Mankind has created a monster roller coaster, and there is no way of getting off it anytime soon .

I guess you mean 22kwh, unless you’re talking about something ballistic, and 500 miles on 22kWh is 44wh per mile. That’s going to be tough if you’re talking about moving a half tonne (at least) object able to accommodate people at normal traffic speeds on normal terrain. The energy required to do this - just overcoming the air resistance, for example - is independent of the propulsive technology you use. A full car powered solely by a 22kWh battery will never do it, although a breakthrough in battery technology might enable a future car with a battery weighing the same as today’s 22kwh battery to go 500 miles - it just needs a better than 4x improvement in energy density. The Tesla Model S’s battery, at today’s energy densities, is so heavy that it wouldn’t count as a low carbon vehicle when powered from the UK grid.

A Twizy could beat 100wh/mile on today’s batteries with slight improvement in streamlining, but it’s not a “proper” car - it just happens to do a lot of what a proper car does! You wouldn’t want to drive one 500 miles in one go, though. :slight_smile:

sorry guys you are wrong, listen to what i have said…superconductive wires move electricity for no power, forever…zero resistance and zero energy in and maximum electron flow…if you used this kind of wire technically in an electric motor said electric motor would use no or virtually no electrical power from the battery for the size of the current motors, hence massive mileage available from smallish battery packs…the only issue is superconductive wires only exist at around -77 degrees kelvin, not practical yet but they are developing more and more lower resitance wires at higher and higher temperatures, and if they could find a wire that is a 1/4 of the resitance of copper at normal temperatures then it would travel 16 times further on the same battery pack, using the square rule.so electric motors are efficient using old measures of current practice but highly inefficient compared to superconductive wires…

battery technology wont move on very much but it will improve…we are seeing 5% storage density increase,year on year…that means about double the power per battery pack over the next 10-20 years, so my zoe pack will be 44 kwh in a few years…not bad but not enough given current electric motor technology…would still only mean 200 miles…real distance, but with my super conductive motor we would see over a 1000 miles on a charge…

head in sands if you want to guys…see you in 2015 when petrol cars will be on their way out…dead…only fools will buy them…

roads will have induction coils fitted and big batteries will not be needed…if you think anything else good on ya, but we will see…

current rate of electric car sales is just a tiny percent of normal cars…just wait and see what will happen as the cars and charge points become more common…snowball effect…only about 1000 electric vehicles in 2011, 4000 in 2012, no figures yet for 2013, but if we see the same growth year on year it will change…

tesla news is old hat, no prediction needed…cars at 90 grand is not an easy sell and making his first profit this year is good…apple need to move somewhere else and with their money and innovative ways it would be a perfect partnership…

Sorry if I sound rude, but you do talk a lot of tosh, don’t know whether through ignorance or over enthusiam. But with your wild unsubstantiated claims and predictions, I would think it’s more the latter.

which bit, superconductive wires…super efficient motors, battery storage density, growth and sales of electric figures, based on DVLA figures published…so what is tosh…explain and I might find it a worthwhile conversation as it is your saying nothing…so pointless words…dont know why you bother…

since the worlds brains seem to be in google these days, not in peoples heads, AND SINCE FACTS ARE ONLY BELIEVED IF THEY COME FROM GOOGLE, I DID A SEARCH, TOOK ME TEN SECONDS AND FOUND THIS…
http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/01/365-megawatt-superconducting-motor.html

SAME EFFICIENCY, MORE OR LESS, THIRD OF THE SIZE, USES LESS ENERGY AND WILL SAVE THOUSANDS IN OPERATING COST…SUPER CONDUCTIVE ENGINES ARE COMING…

TOSH INDEED…THE VOICE OF IGNORANCE…

HTS (high temp superconductor) motors have been in existence for quite a few years and developing fast. That’s a fact. But it’s your misconception that it will be applicable to cars very soon that’s the problem. Apart from the need for cryogenics which is a big problem, even engineers in the field think that it is really only suitable for the big (1000 hp or over) commercial motor applications. Having said that Sumitomo Electric of Japan did make a prototype car with a HTS motor as far back as 2008, and it did run more than just 10% further than a conventional electric car using the same type of battery. They said they should be able to put it into production form in a few years time. Since then we have heard very little. Why do you think you don’t hear car engineers in the industry talk much about HTS motors for their electric cars, rather they talk about improvements in battery performance?
So you really do believe what you said then, electric cars outselling ICE by the end of the decade etc etc. Can I conclude it wasn’t over enthusiam then!!??

The claim that 22kw hours of power will ever be enough to drive a car 500 miles isn’t credible even with 100% efficient motors. You still need to do more than 22kwh of work to accelerate and move a car that distance.

okay that’s enough! Let’s all get rid of our good intentions and start driving ICEs again! Forget about the Watts that go into transporting en refining oil and let’s go places!

exactly…I wonder sometimes how the human race progressed, thank heavens a few people have thing called vision and dont just believe their limited knowledge…a few years ago we were told man could not fly, then he could not go faster than the speed of sound, then he could not go into space, etc etc…digital cameras will never be as good as film etc etc…all views of closed minds…thankfully there are a few who see the future…

battery power/density will increase over time this is a given…
electrical motors will become smaller more powerful and use far less electricity for a given power level…this will result in bigger miles on bigger batteries for the same size of a 22kw battery…dip your heads in the sand all you want but I believe in knowledge research and facts not google…

Well now we are talking properly its subjective…heres what I think has to happen…

  1. we need to take renewable power seriously, no more poo pooing wind turbines or solar panels or biomass generators, we need them all and we need them now.
  2. Nuclear power will be needed, CND screwed the UK for nuclear power, they should all be brought to book about their efforts as we now have limited power are burning too much gas and coal and polluting the atmosphere, global warming here we are…no longer here we come…we are seeing the effects now.
  3. I agree about superconducting issues, but wires are being developed that offer a fraction of the resistance of a standard copper wire…they are not yet ready for production and are damn expensive, but once we get them into production we should see them improve on power size and electrical consumption…this means reduced weight, which equates to more miles on the same battery…
  4. Battery technology will improve but realistically its about infrastructure, once we can charge the cars via coils in the roadway we will not need much battery power at all…we will just get power from the roadway and use what battery power we have for the last few miles to home etc…
  5. Current models will change and become ever more popular…the next generation should see cars doing 150 real miles on a full charge, with chargers everywhere on the motorways in some service stations, they have not picked up on this yet but they will and in business car parks, and at every-ones homes you will never be more than a few miles from a charge point…
  6. Petrol engines are complex low on power and torque for the energy potential of petrol…they can never match an electrical engine for efficiency…fix 4 250 watt motors to a cars wheels and you would have a monstrously quick car that would test tyre performance greater than any car engine…petrol is on its way out I truly believe that…hence why I am investing the EV future.
  7. statements like we will never be able to get as much energy as a tank full of petrol into a battery are just nonsense. we will and we are heading there very fast indeed. plus an electrical car will use the majority of the energy in a battery pack unlike a car which runs at around 20-30% efficiency…so it wastes most of the energy it carries…and thats nothing to do with the pollution.

my visions/hope is that we invest in solar wind renewable biomass and Nuclear power over the next 20 years…we build induction coils in all new roads…we invest in the electrical future, we reduce our use of carbon based fuels to airplanes, some ships…and thats about it…we would then see a 75% reduction in pollutants and save the planet, plus have cheap electrical power for all things human…a dream maybe a hope for sure, but “A LOAD OF OLD TOSH” …NO…